Our greatest gift to Christ -- Take 2!

Bible Stories
April 27, 2009



St. Victor Catholic Church in North Hollywood has started a Discipleship group that meets the second Thursday of each month at 8:00 p.m. The next two meetings are May 14th and June 11th. All are welcome.

Father Paul
The Easter candle is like Christ’s divine light. He shares that with others. Each time someone takes His divine light and lights their own candle, the light of the Easter candle is undimmed. Every time it divides, it is just as light; yet, there are a lot more lights that are lit. Each time you come [to Christ], you can take as much as you want. No matter how much light we take, there is always more!

The topic last Thursday at St. Victor’s was “What is Discipleship?” Several who attended that meeting were at this Discipleship meeting. Father Paul asked if someone from St. Victor’s would talk about what was discussed regarding discipleship.

Andrew
We are called to make Disciples of all nations, to make them other Christs.

Father Paul
Does that sound impossible, or really impossible?

Brian
Depends on who is doing the work. No other institution has lasted this long. It is like a musical note. If it stands alone, it doesn’t do much. You can’t create a key signature. You put two notes together, and you have harmony created between them. They are different harmonies coming together. It is like the Holy Spirit coming together with the Father and the Son, which is much like us coming together in this world.

Father Paul
I was speaking to a person today. They were very excited about this intimate personal encounter with Jesus. But, she really didn’t have a lot of good feelings about structure. What I hear you saying is that when there is structure, it provides a place for the notes to be.

We are talking about the value of relationship. In relationship there can be spirit. I think we can get on safe grounds by saying the longest running relationship is the Trinity. That is a relationship between the Father and the Son, and it is the relationship with the Holy Spirit. In order for God to be encounterable, there must be a structure. Part of that oneness came in a way that was expressed and encountered among us. He came and was always in relationship with the Father. Sometimes it feels like that Spirit, that relationship between two parties, is really what gives value and meaning and makes it all worthwhile. Even though you can’t grab it or manipulate it, it seems very real.

Ethan
There are men and women who are going out. When women are involved, the music is more interesting.

Kenneth
Without wombs, we would not have an incarnate God.

Father Paul
That Spirit of God is invisible, it is attempting to make us into other Christ’s. It has gotten into the human community by those who give an open space for that to occur. They leave a space open.

Brian
It seemed scary to turn others into Christs. It is nice to remember if we can trust, which is the first step, then we can realize how funny it is that we thought it was scary. We can see how possible it really is.

Father Paul
Estrella how does this seem to you?

Estrella
It is like dancing. If we don’t have Christ as a partner, it is not going to work.

Father Paul
What I hear you saying is that if the initial relationship in the family is broken, they can still have access to God. God has a restoring power of relationship of love where all is not well in Paradise.

Jessica
We have to be weak and recognize our weaknesses in order to be strengthened by those in God. We all come from some brokenness. Some may be stronger than others in order to heal. In that way, we are able to be little Christs. It is not us going to this person, but Jesus going to this person and helping in whatever they need. I have been experiencing it. I am doing the craziest things imaginable…after I met Christ. I am a loser for Christ. It is cool being a loser for Christ.

Father Paul
What I hear is that there can be brokenness. God can be there in that. There is something about recognizing our imperfectness which actually can be a really, really wonderful thing.

Louise
I was thinking about how we come to God as a needy child. With God everything is so simple. He heals us.

Nicholas
Maybe people could share their own personal stories and encounters.

Josie
Everyday I’m in continuous, spontaneous prayer. I like to always think of God on my everyday experience, and experience our Lord. We have so much to learn about our church and our faith. Every day I can pick up something new, I don’t need to watch TV.

Alex
I’m not sure where I am, but I ask the Lord to help me. I wasn’t going to come, but I know that God was calling me to be here.

Laura
I have no clue what’s going on. I hoped there was books and no talking, but now everybody is talking! I was walking my dog, and Josie was walking her dog and we started speaking. All I heard was, “Do you know what time confession is?” I thought, If that’s not the grace of God, and I’m just happy to be here.

Demetria
I’m searching for a deeper communion with Jesus

Bob
I’ve been retired for about 5 years, but I’ve wanted to serve since I’ve retired. I serve at a soup kitchen and at the parish ministry.

Robert
I’ve been going steady, but not getting where I want to be, but I’m longing for a closer relationship with God.

Father Paul
That translates into becoming God, because when you’re in relationship with someone you become that. You mutually become a new order of being, but not necessarily each other. We’re making it up as we go along. (Laughter)

Kristin
I missed the meeting on Easter Monday because I was in chains in prison. I spent six days at the gates of Hell, and so I catechized there and helped some amazing women. The point is that this is Christ’s work. It’s not the place or the way I would have thought, or chosen, to do Christ's work. I wanted very much, expected, and asked Our Lord to make it possible, to be here with you. At the same time, I reassured Him I was willing, content and happy to do whatever He preferred -- His Will His Way. So, He blessed me with another sort of Discipleship that Easter Monday night -- one I could not possibly have chosen or ever thought myself worthy or capable of -- but it clearly wasn't me -- it was entirely Him -- His doing -- His Will. Ultimately, that is what this exercise is all about. We were all still together in Christ.

Patricia
I’m amazed and determined. Amazed because I received a blessing from Father Paul. I wasn’t a big believer in hearing people talk about the Holy Spirit, but when I was in the room with you and with my eyes closed, I saw a white light and almost saw an outline of Jesus…and determined to remain in this union

Father Paul
We have a responsibility to cooperate with what God is doing in us…looking for a trust factor.

Scottie
I feel confused on how to evangelize or not to, or how to talk to people about God and your experience and share your relationship. I’m in philosophy class, and it gets confusing…am I supposed to be nice or harsh?

Stacy
Nice. (Laughter) He’s like a brother to me. Father thank you. I feel like I’m at home. I love adoration. I’m Egyptian, and we cover our heads whether Christian or Muslim, and it’s more simple just like St. Therese…keep it simple. I just started learning about our faith a year ago. Our Blessed Mother is our mother. I’m staying home because this faith is so rich. I just met Scottie a week ago, and I told him he’s my brother….so happy to be home. I saw Muslims in Egypt who sacrificed themselves blowing up buildings and going against the government who is pro-American. I’m just so happy to know Jesus, because there are so many souls who are misled. It’s a blessing to be born Catholic.

Kenneth
I’m unique in my spiritual history. I was raised in a very Protestant family. I stopped going to church and became a legit pagan. I started feeling like monotheism was the truth and was led to the Catholic Church, and it was tough, but it was a long interesting journey.

Brian
I feel a little bit anxious but that’s ok. I just love God, and hope that I never forget that; and he always gives me what I need.



Mylene
I’m so overwhelmed right now [and] very high-strung. I feel like I’m in a constant struggle with what I want and what I need and praying that what I need is what I want. I’m so grateful to have this [group].

Sister Sheila
I feel like I love God and that I have a lot to learn.

Tabatha
I feel like I’m in a place of surrender and acceptance. It’s like Jesus is a dentist. He exposes what needs to be healed, the poison, before it gets better. My spirituality is very weak. I’m like a tree that keeps getting blown around with no roots attached to hold me in place. I had a vision like I was going into the ground and my arms were digging in the dirt to put roots down, but I wasn’t getting anywhere. But then the vision changed that I fell asleep and drifted down into the ground. I was being pulled to the center of the earth where the Trinity was. If I can get there I’ll be ok. I’m spiritually napping and letting God grow the roots.

Kenneth
So, you are under anesthesia and napping while the dentist works. (Laughter)

Anna
I usually don’t talk in front of people. Father Paul discovered me. He came to bless my house, and ever since then I haven’t let go. Sometimes I struggle, but I feel like God really wants me. And sometimes it’s hard for me to let go. But I see Tabatha struggling, and I know that I’m not alone.

Ethan
I am just very thankful to be here in all of your presence. I feel the Jesus in all of you, and in me. It stirs it up in me. Thank you for loving Him.

Gabriella
I felt like Father came to my house and called my daughter. I felt his love pull her in a lot. My heart is coming out. I saw Jesus. I felt like Jesus was very thirsty. I was telling people to give him water to drink. I went to his feet and cried at his feet. Jesus came down and said, “Eat my flesh and drink my blood.” During Holy Thursday, my heart was just pounding. [I said] Jesus you are with me. Thank you. Thank you.

Phyllis
I have been Catholic for almost a year. I came from Lutheran faith. I am amazed at what an awesome God we serve. I am just amazed with Christ.

Lorena (mother)
I have four children. I am just jumping here and there too trying to learn about God.

Lorena (daughter)
I am just doing what she does.

Martha
I met Father Paul about a month after he became a priest. Someone said certain priests have different gifts. I was in the back and hadn’t met him. You could tell the Holy Spirit was so strong with him. You could see a change in him before mass and after. You could see the Holy Spirit. I can feel the strength of the Holy Spirit. There are hearts beating. I have been in the charismatic movement for 10 years, and I know nothing.
I can feel the Holy Spirit moving in this room. It is going to work in you. I am feeling this and sharing it. I cannot contain it. The Lord is with you very, very strongly. Thank God we can say, “Alleluia,” now that Lent is over! I am grateful we can say that. I go to the Easter Vigil. It is beautiful to come to a place and say, “Alleluia.” We can receive our Sacraments. We can be an example. Pray for the kids who are making their first penance. It is beautiful. I know there are questions you guys have. Thank you for putting this together. My heart is in my throat because I can feel your joy. I have chills because some of you are so happy.

Tyree
I have been Catholic all my life. For me, the lesson of the day is to hope in the Lord. To hope in a man who lived and died and continues to live. That is why I come here, to learn to hope in Jesus Christ the Son, Jesus Christ the God, Jesus Christ the Spirit. That is what I am hoping for. I don’t know how it’s all going to come out.

Krissy
I am feeling tested. I won’t learn my lesson. I have challenges in all areas of my life. I can’t seem to trust God when I have to. He hopes I will turn to him. I am glad to be here.

Andrew
I am hopeful and I am afraid. I am afraid to be vulnerable, to open myself up to God. But I am hopeful that if I do, cool things are gonna’ happen.

Nicholas
I think I am in love with Scottie’s sister! (Roaring laughter)
I relate to her in that I was going to an Episcopal church. In a certain situation, you might feel more safe; especially during Eucharist. I never felt it.

Mando
Do you want to be a nun? (Laughter)

Nicholas
I hope it is real. I went on a personal retreat at St. Andrew’s Abbey. That is how I celebrated finishing graduate work. That was the logical place to go and let loose. (Laughter) I intellectualize a lot. I wanted to introduce “me” to it all. They were real people with real problems. I met a Brother Cassian there, and I ran into Ethan there. We met in passing, and I said, “Whatever…let me finish my vacation.” I spoke to Brother Cassian. He connected me with Father Paul. I got back in touch with Ethan, and a lot of profoundly bad things have happened (laughter) …and I don’t care. I got in a car wreck. I wasn’t even a block from my friend’s house. I had a witness, and I am getting a new car. I went to this monastery and said, “This is it!” I don’t want to make Father Paul into a mini-god, but he seems to be in a place that is similar to me. I am feeling a grace I cannot see or communicate. I recently read a book and it spoke to me and got me beyond just having faith to a place that I can see morals and what they mean.

Krystal
I think this group has helped me a lot with my faith. When I finally did confirmation, it lit me on fire. I wanted to learn more and feel more. Once you start learning about God, and knowing Him, things that would never have bothered me, hurt me. It hurts God. I am found in God. I have been tested a lot. When I feel lost, it is when I am far from God. I am the one who is far from Him.

Chris
I missed the initial question…

Father Paul
I think we all did! (Laughter) What is my way of being? Or, whatever.

Chris
My way of being…I guess what I think of…I can relate to the movies brought in. I watched The Bells of St Mary’s . One of the girls is asked to bring five senses together. She has them wrong. She adds ”to be’… to be present and to be who we are in God. She related it to Hamlet. To be or not to be. For me, to be, to be present as possible to God and my relationship to Him. I am being asked to trust in my life, my future, my finances; knowing He is going to take care of everything. All that has happened and will happen is in Him.

Rosemarie
I am amazed and transformed. The last two weeks has been difficult. My best friend’s daughter is getting married. Finally, with wrestling with this trip. I went on my knees and just fell asleep. The Lord told me He would be with me on the trip. My friends are protestants. I told the Lord if He wanted this to be a trip of evangelizing, it will be.

Joe
My way of being, I think I am greedy and ambitious. I want to learn and be exposed to as many things as possible. I came because I checked out four DVD’s last time. I am a cradle Catholic. I realize that I have been making good excuses that I have no male role model. Psychologically, that stuck with me for a long time. A few years ago, I let it go and forgave my father. The whole time I have a pretty good role model, in Jesus. And I watch these movies on the saints. They are like rock stars! When I come out of James Bond…I can be James Bond. When I see movies about St. Francis, I am so charged up. I just want to love as much as possible.

Father Paul
Why is this called the “Acts of Apostles?”

Someone responded that the Acts of the Apostles is an actual continuation of Jesus. We are supposed to make other Christs. We have a continuation of one Christ in others bodies.

We read Acts of the Apostles Chapter 4: 8-12

“Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, answered them, ‘Leaders of the people and elders:
If we are being examined today about a good deed done to a cripple, namely, by what means he was saved,
then all of you and all the people of Israel should know that it was in the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarean whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead; in his name this man stands before you healed.
He is 'the stone rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone.'
There is no salvation through anyone else, nor is there any other name under heaven given to the human race by which we are to be saved’."

Stacy
It takes me back to the Middle East. There is no salvation except through Jesus Christ. There it is. Again, I just thank Jesus.

Brian
I was kinda’ confused last night. I was opened to being helped and being held. I was confused about who was there wanting to hold me. And I know there are other things out there that I don’t know about. I knew I needed to be held. I tried to listen and prayed to know that you [God] are going to take hold of me and then He took care of me. It came from saying, “I am open to everything, but I need you.”

Gabriel
His love is so powerful He can heal our brokenness. I think about my own failings in life. I know God the Father in Jesus Christ is calling for me to be healed.

Next reading: First Letter of John Chapter 3: 1-2
“See what love the Father has bestowed on us that we may be called the children of God. Yet so we are. The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Beloved, we are God’s children now; what we shall be has not yet been revealed. We do know that when it is revealed we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.”

Patricia
I have done so much for my family. Now, I am doing everything for the name of Jesus, for the name of God. I am living for God and everything He stands for.

Father
How did you get like this?

Patricia
Partly because I met you [Father Paul], and because I opened the door completely letting all emotions, fear mix in with God and see how it worked. I was in a car wreck too. I am saving up for my house, and I just said, “Ok.” I know if I hadn’t been in this state of mind…all is well.

Stacy
I wanted to comment about going to God all imperfect. He just loves us so much that He accepts us. That is why He is on the cross.

Father Paul
I get so happy when I hear someone say, “I am lost or just beginning.” Jesus is so grateful when we just show Him where we are. He gives us grace and strength that He helps us open up these places that are worse. He goes deeper and deeper. The contemplative prayer is the way we allow Him to go deeper and deeper and heal those places.

Alex
“See what love the Father has bestowed on us.” I just keep thinking of the love God has for us. He wants to be in the garbage with us. Even in my thoughts, if they are not good, he wants to be there with me. When I was in a negative thought, I invited Him to come into it. He transformed it. He is not afraid to enter into something that is not of Him. He transforms it.

Father Paul
There are people who have been praying for years and are just as unknowing. You cannot even count the hours. Christ wants us to forever be beginners. Any time He touches us, it is a small comparison to what the whole realm is. I was talking to someone who is one of those people. He is the guy giving the retreat for the monks at Valyermo. He was asking, “What do you do when you get into prayer and it feels like grace is coming in? What do you do with the part that is fighting it. How is one to be with that…to allow Christ to move through. Allow Christ to come in with all that?” Anything that is unhealthy energy, He takes into Himself. That gets tamed to another whole level. We just trust and stay in that zone. It is the same thing we are dong; the same thing this guy is doing. I connect my lostness with someone else’s lostness. Jesus says He thinks He’s got enough. You know the fighting doesn’t work. A new person will start to open to you, but you know you have nothing to give. You get used to Christ being in the middle of all that mess. You are both opening up to Christ. He honors that communion and comes in and heals. I am the same, but Christ is happy to be with loneliness and lostness.

Bethany
The way Alex invited God into our bad thoughts. The natural thoughts of negativity is shame. I think shame is the worst thing that can come into your spiritual life. Shame makes you hide…like Adam and Eve. My natural response is to feel the shame and hide.

Joe
What we just read, for me, taking ourselves as literal “children of God.” It may be hard to believe. Since I have made God the Father my Father, I am making it like He is my earthly father. So many don’t make him our father. That is why they are so far from me. My family knows my scars, and illnesses. The more we make the Father our earthly father, the better it is for us. The King of Kings is our earthly father. He has our back covered!

Sister Sheila
In that shame, I have discovered going to Mary because she has a tender heart and is open to the Holy Spirit. What we block, she can help us open us. She helps with what we block.

Stacy
Sometimes it is hard to accept “Beloved,” that there is someone who loves us unconditionally. The word in itself is so beautiful.

Patrick
In regards to shame, my life and my beliefs were opposite. I would go to Mass and leave because my sin brought shame to me. Over a month ago, I said I would give up everything. I wouldn’t even pray. He reached out to me in my agony and changed my life 360 degrees. Maybe even though you don’t reach out to Him, He still reaches out to you. One day, I let it out, and that was it! God has intervened in my life.

Father Paul
Talking about the word “Beloved,” we had to write a letter to God and then write what God would be writing to me. I only got to two words…Dear Paul. That is that word “Beloved.” Somehow we have to get that…that’s what gets us a marker on the board of these experiences. When God is saying, “Beloved” and He is not talking to the person next to us.

Ethan
“See what love the Father has bestowed on us that we may be called the children of God.” This comes back to Ephesians. He is giving us Heaven so we can be called the children of God.

Father Paul
I cannot become “Beloved” or have an act of the “Beloved ones.” I have to be in union with the others He is calling “Beloved.” I can’t really get it until we get it together. It’s about all of it together. He is not alive until the rest of His body comes together. St. Paul says, “I want to be with Christ only if the others are with Christ.”

Brian
I don’t even understand what St Paul said…I don’t want to be with Christ.

Father Paul
Let’s go to Romans 9: 1-3

“I speak the truth in Christ, I do not lie; my conscience joins with the holy Spirit in bearing me witness
that I have great sorrow and constant anguish in my heart.
For I could wish that I myself were accursed and separated from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kin according to the flesh.”

Father Paul
That is Jesus’ own longing in St. Paul.

Reading: John 10:11-18

“I am the good shepherd. A good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. A hired man, who is not a shepherd and whose sheep are not his own, sees a wolf coming and leaves the sheep and runs away, and the wolf catches and scatters them. This is because he works for pay and has no concern for the sheep. I am the good shepherd, and I know mine and mine know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I will lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that do not belong to this fold. These also I must lead, and they will hear my voice, and there will be one flock, one shepherd. This is why the Father loves me, because I lay down my life in order to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down on my own. I have power to lay it down, and power to take it up again. This command I have received from my Father."

Tyree
Wow! (Laughter) He goes right to the heart of it, right to the center.

Stacy
I get confused. The Father, is He a Spirit, a person?

Father Paul
Yes.
Three persons in One God. A communion of persons.

Kenneth
There is such a perfect outpouring of love and self and will that is perfectly reflected by the Son. So perfect, that relationship became its own person. Is that the Holy Spirit?

Father Paul
Yes. The Father can only pour Himself out if there is a person who is open to completely receive. If you can only pour out half of it, and that person can only receive half, then God can only be half of who He receives. The Son received all of what the Father is. Part of the Father is the Son who is open to outpouring in reality of His Father, and now He will have nothing but the Father in Him and now all you can do is pour out completely who you are. St. Paul said he needed his brothers to be woken up in communion for me to be who I am. Our greatest gift for Christ is not what we do for Him…but what He can do for us. I was asking God, “How can I thank you for all you have given me?” [He said,] “The only way you can thank me is to be open to receive more. I get so thrilled with that. And if you want to thank me again,….you know what’s next.” Then you have this outpouring. You are just looking for a place for this to go. You are looking for others who will receive.

Stacy
The Father just existed.

Father Paul
With a big “E.” He is supporting everything in being. It is not imaginable. It is beyond a “thing”
The fun part I like, ”I have the power to lay it down.” He is doing this only because He is God Himself. We get naive [by saying that] I am going empty myself. You are still doing the emptying. You do not have the power to empty yourself. Christ himself infuses us with His own power that He has to lay down His life. We go so far, and then it gets embarrassing. Christ gives us His own being. Christ says He will come into all that with you. His life is the Divine Trinity. If we allow Him, He will lay down His life within us. We don’t worry about not being perfect. I can’t be nice. I can’t fast perfectly. He lets us try so that we may become humble. You will be more disposed before you take over again. [Christ says] it will be an on-going resignation to my presence and my being in you. That is a poverty of spirit. Blessed are the poor in spirit…because you are allowing God’s own spirit to wed with your spirit. The Kingdom of God will be in us, the two become one. We continually yield to Him. Christ had to continually learn how to be wed in a complementary union with the Father.

It is cheating in a good way if you have this disposition and child-like place and then cheat to allow God to add the Eucharist. It just puts it into light speed. Jesus in the Eucharist says, “I will help you. I will do the dying for you. Oh, you need a little more relationship, I can give you more of that.” The more we rest, the more we sleep and the more we let him in those places. It is all there in Christ. As we yield to that activity, we allow Christ’s intensified presence in us. All prayer is participation in Christ’s own prayer He implants in us. Our inner being moves in that Divine dance. Our own being moves in that Divine way…moving and consecrating. This might be a way to get back this game that is out of control.

Patricia told the story that she heard a homily that they put inferred cameras in on patients in the hospital. The colors on the camera were dark when they were sick. When the patients received the Eucharist, they radiated and they were light. This light came out of them and completely changed those colors.

Father Paul
Jesus is really Jesus…but the activation in participation is up to us. The switch is up to us. The pope had an Encyclical about the Eucharist. Christ needs us to allow an access so relationship can be mutual. It frees us to participate more. Christ wants us to be open and vulnerable during communion. He wants to receive within us, His own self.

By His grace and gift, we are activated by His grace and gift in us. We participate. That is why Christ could not become man unless there was a gift of grace, of Christ on the cross, Mary. She could not have done it as a creature. She needed a divine grace that was given to her in advance of Christ on the cross.

God was God…always. He also became creation. When Christ died, He saved everybody from sin. He took all sin into himself…even Mary’s preemptively. She was given an advanced payment of the grace.

Next Discipleship Meeting:

Monday, May 11, 2009 @ 7pm
St. Andrew’s school conference room